I have been wondering what makes someone pick a certain guru, what capacity, what characteristics… This is the transcript of an audio of a conversation I had with Nancy, my brainstorming buddy… Listening to it is like going on a scenic helicopter ride… Enjoy

I just had one of the most intriguing conversations with my friend, Nancy.

One of the things I love about Nancy is that she always delivers the results I need, even when she is off.

Yesterday she suggested that I put up my articles on youtube… and I had a troubling question about that.

What is it that people are attracted to when they follow a guru?

That is what this article is about.

I have edited the transcript to easier to read, edited out the hm’s but left curse words in. I hope it will make more sense…

Sophie: … There is this place where one looks to determine for themselves how high somebody’s vibration is.

And you expect that grace and ease is going to show up, not just an actuality, real grace and ease*, but as a reflection on how you hold yourself, how you look, what you do. When there is a reflection, the gurus are going to have sparkling eyes and smooth skin and all that.

(*Grace and ease can’t be seen. Grace and ease is someone just doing what they are supposed to do, and have no resistance about it. You think it is easy, and pay no attention to it. If you want others to say about you that you do things with grace and ease, you need to do it, like in theaters, by adding big outward signs of it…)

But it’s not true for the person, regardless of their frequency, who has a passion burning in them for what they are doing. For them the vibration is a tool. So once it’s a tool, it works differently. If I were just a human being having my vibration this high and I would just have to do my work, my life, I would look like a billion dollars with my current vibration, right?

Nancy: Say it again, if you what? This went way over my head…

Sophie: If I were someone with a vibration were really high, and all I would have to do in my life is to do my work, whatever my work may be, and my work would have nothing to do with raising somebody else’s vibration, then. I would just commune with God for the sake of communing, connect for the sake of connecting, connect for my own sake, like what’s up buddy, talking to Source casually like that, right?

Nancy: Yes. for the sake of “hi!”.

Sophie: Yes. I would say something like: “I’d like to know you better, can we have lunch some day. I love you, you’re so great. I love my life.”

But that’s not the case with me or with the two people that I’m watching closely, Tr. and Sai Maa…

Nancy: Tr., what is that?

Sophie: It’s a guy’s name.

Nancy: Oh okay. Sorry, I just didn’t know what it was.

Sophie: Tr. is a guy’s name who I’m watching. Tr., Sai Maa and myself – I’m watching the three of us, okay?

Nancy: Okay, that’s very cool, yes.

Sophie: Because I glean some stuff from there. Tr. looks like he is going to croak any day now, okay? he looks like he doesn’t sleep. He looks tired and sometimes his voice has no color, you know? And I can tell you, from my own experience, that he’s working his ass off, but not working in a space of low vibration.

No, no, no. He’s working to generate more energy which means he is going to have to dig deep the recesses of his being where there is darkness or in his case I think he kind of communes with dark energies too because – but I’m not sure, I’m not sure what he does.

I have been observing him for about a month now and even signed up to his program because I find this intriguing.

Anyway, what I’m trying to say is, the common expectation, of a normal human being, of somebody who is in the position to be a leader is off, it’s mistaken, you know. I spoke with Gina yesterday and she was like, “Whoa,” and I said, “I love you,” and he…

Nancy: My Tina who went to heaven?

Sophie: No, no. Gina. No, I don’t talk to dead people.

Nancy: Oh, okay.

Sophie: Gina.

Nancy: Gina, I know who you mean, yes.

Sophie: So I said, “I love you,” for whatever reason and I was mainly present to what degree I loved her. And she said, “I also love who you have become.” Now, you hear the difference, right?

Nancy: Yes, big difference.

Sophie: But she didn’t hear the difference. She didn’t say, “I love you.” She said, She is the person who was is into doing, so she acknowledged the same thing in me, like my accomplishment. You get that?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: And then I answered, “I love you warts and all, because I can, because my vibration is high, because you can only really love unconditionally when you are above 525.”

And then she didn’t answer. And it’s stayed with me.

So now I am really really looking at the public perception and I was even observing – where am I looking to feel somebody’s level of vibration? Where am I looking?

I find people with incredibly sparkly eyes. They look incredibly healthy. And their vibration is under 200. They are meditation teachers, they are ‘raising your vibration’ teachers, so obviously it doesn’t work, right? It doesn’t work to raise the vibration but it raises something.

Nancy: Yes, it raises something.

Sophie: Okay. When you do fire-breathing or you do any kind of breathing, that really increases some aliveness, right?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: And you may even have more energy but your vibration didn’t go higher. But people cannot see high vibration. They can only see sparkling eyes, they can only see grace and ease, they can only see promise, they can only see that Sai Maa sits in the front and laughs for 20 minutes and they get that that person is closer to heaven than they are, okay.

Nancy: Right.

Sophie: But on the negative side, you kind of – and I don’t say you personally but I’m saying people at a low vibration will look at somebody at the higher vibration and say, “Yes, their vibration is higher,” and what they mean is three that their number is three higher than theirs, that’s all they can see. And you can say, “Well, they weren’t looking.” Now, were you projecting? Yes, that’s all you can do. That’s how the human machine works. You project capacities and the capacities that you project are not much higher than yours because you can’t even see those, those are in a different bubble.

Anyway, that’s exactly what I’m talking about so you gave me an illustration. You got that?

Nancy: Yes, except for this: two people in the conversation here and I feel like I was more in inquiry and suggesting even that I knock it off with the metaphors because it causes us to get out of the stream… and I have a habit of adding metaphors to what you say.

Sophie: There’s nothing wrong with adding metaphors as long as you know that your metaphors are a reflection of YOUR narrow cone of vision.

Nancy: So, I am considering knocking it off with the metaphors.

Sophie: No, no, no, no. No, don’t knock off the metaphors, just know that your metaphors are not clear.

Nancy: Oh, I feel like I’m an asshole because you’re saying something…

Sophie: No, no, no, no. There is nothing asshole-ish about metaphors.

Nancy: Okay, all right. Yet they are kick somebody brilliant who I’m…

Sophie: No, no, I’m not brilliant. So that’s what you don’t understand. I’m a normal person who has a higher vantage point because that’s pretty much what you get with high vibration, a wider cone of vision. Can you get the difference?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: You are driving in the street and you get the street level and somebody from a helicopter looks at the same thing. They’re not better than you, they’re only human being, right?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: They’re not better than you because they’re on the helicopter, they’re just in a different vantage point. And from there they can see that you are driving into a street where they are cutting the trees and therefore the street is blocked and they tell you ahead of time, By the way, that’s what’s happening in Syracuse. You can’t drive. It’s like you’re turning back galore and the guys there are so freaking self righteous that one of them was yelling at me and stood so close to my car that I could only go backwards. I couldn’t turn around and I said, “You’re an asshole. I can’t even turn around.”

Nancy: Right. Oh my God.

Sophie: So, if you can’t get: a lot of what’s going on in the world is from standing too close to it, okay?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: Which means that thing fills your whole cone of vision, it’s not just part of it which means you can’t see where it even ends. Then you can say a metaphor that doesn’t mean just that, it means more than that which makes it muddy. Why is it muddy? Because it is ambivalent. As you say it, it doesn’t mean one thing. But here’s the good thing that happens from it and that it’s why it’s so greaty to talk to you because if you can’t contribute one way, you will contribute another way. because I, before this conversation, I couldn’t see that the difference is the vantage point.

Nancy: You couldn’t see what?

Sophie: I couldn’t see where one’s higher vibration may manifest in that your vantage point is different.

Nancy: Okay, good.

Sophie: Because you can see that if your vantage point – if you view your life from the helicopter then you are going to be much less upset, right? Can you see that?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: Okay, tell me.

Nancy: Yes. Actually, I have physically had that experience and I showed some houses by helicopter in Syracuse and we went all around with the helicopter. I have my opinion on Syracuse and oh my God, I think you’re up 500 feet, I’m not sure but, oh my God, it’s beautiful. It’s absolutely undulating and green and gorgeous.

Sophie: Yes and when you’re in the street level, you can’t see that.

Nancy: No, no. Your feet are dirty and it’s dusty and you see all these other stuff. But my God, from up there it’s amazing. Amazing. So yes, yes, yes.

Sophie: Okay, so can you forgive me for that?

Nancy: Yes, of course.

Sophie: No, no, I can imagine experiencing at least twinges of anger, jealousy, resentment…

Nancy: From me?

Sophie: From anyone. No, I mean if I had someone in my environment say this to me and I wouldn’t be able to be there, I would have to buy a helicopter ride. I wouldn’t live there and every pebble – let me give you another example because something really great came to me. Just before I left Hungary, I don’t remember why, but I bought a tiny Italian car. It’s like a car that has the size of engine like a motorcycle.

Nancy: Uh-huh. You did?

Sophie: Yes, I did buy one and that’s what I went to Vienna with. And it has these tiny wheels, smaller than normal wheels, much like these little cars that Toyota makes. And it felt every freaking pebble and I felt it on my ass. Do you understand?

Nancy: Uh-huh.

Sophie: So, I felt so ground bound and so thrown off by every pebble. You know, my experience of life wasn’t that it was a smooth ride. Every rain rains on me, every pebble gets in my way and I could feel them. Again, it’s like ugh. Now, I drive today a Century.

Nancy: A green car?

Sophie: A green Century and that is a full sized car, right?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: They call that full sized car. It has full sized wheels and I feel no pebbles,. So that is another way to say the same thing.

Like for instance, last night just before I went to bed I wanted to make something easier for my brother and I fuc-ked up royally.

I added about five hours of work to his schedule. And I went back and it wouldn’t fix it. It wasn’t willing to do the reverse, the software. “Okay, got it.” So, I sent an instant message to my brother as I apologized. ‘I screwed up something for you and I’m sorry for causing more work for you.’

I went to sleep and I mused that a few months ago that would have been a major issue.

Nancy: Yes. That’s wonderful.

Sophie: And I would have even told him, “Don’t do that part, I’ll do that.” He does this and I do that and I would have fixed it myself. To not have to say, “I screwed up.” And I apologized. He is my employee, you understand?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: I mean, not just my brother but my employee and you don’t say to an employee when the Pebbles are active and irritating as I apologized because it doesn’t help. You’re looking bigger.

Okay, returning to the original thing – like one of the assignments that I have given myself is there’s this girl who refuses to eat and then she needs to be taken to the psych ward and she’s there for two weeks and then she eats and then maybe she eats after that for a little while but then she stops eating again. She’s afraid to put stuff in her mouth, in her body.

Nancy: She what now?

Sophie: Afraid to put stuff in her body or something like that, that’s what she told me. I am looking what download I could give her that would make it safe for her to eat. And I have a secret for you.

Nancy: Yes?

Sophie: God doesn’t know it.

Nancy: Wow, that is a big secret. It’s really amazing.

Sophie: Because God doesn’t deal with disease. God only lives with wellness, that’s why I need to command and download. That isn’t – do you understand?

Nancy: Oh, I do. That’s a big secret. That’s very cool.

Sophie: So, I have to do good an awful lot of work before I can say, “Okay, give me this download.” And when you look at me from the outside and you expect me to look good because I now – I mean, I have very troubled sleep because I am doing this work and I’m imagining myself in her place and it’s like I am doing the work, right?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: I look like shit.

Nancy: You and Trivoli or whatever his name is, Trivoli

Sophie: Tr.

Nancy: Tr.?

Sophie: Tri-ve-di.

Nancy: Tr.

Sophie: Yes, he’s quite a remarkable man actually.

Nancy: Where is he in the world?

Sophie: He lives I think if understand correctly, in Illinois. He came about a year ago from India and his declared purpose – because there’s a declared and undeclared, right?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: His declared purpose is to prove to the scientific establishment that you can do things that don’t meet the eye and it does an actual physical change. So, one of the things that he does is that he heals crops.

Nancy: He heals what?

Sophie: Crops.

Nancy: Crops?

Sophie: Crops, plants.

Nancy: Oh crops, yes.

Sophie: Yes and he’s successful at that.

Nancy: He must be a good listener.

Sophie: I am not sure where he does that from, I am not sure. That’s why I signed up to his program. I can’t hear him listening.

Nancy: Oh, wow. What do you do in his program?

Sophie: I receive.

Nancy: Okay.

Sophie: He calls them blessings and they are energy submissions. I only got a sample and he said it was three minutes but it was really one, 60 seconds. It knocked me to the ground.

Nancy: Really?

Sophie: Holy fuc-king shit.

Nancy: Wow, holy fuc-king shit.

Sophie: And I was detoxing for two days after that.

Nancy: Oh, wow.

Sophie: So, I think that he actually doesn’t listen. Say, I imagine myself a plant and I can see that I have blockages. “Blockages” was a full expression of plant. I have a bug here, I have some lack of minerals there, this is too acidic, that’s too alkaline. I have blockages. So, he does this transmission and I suddenly find myself being able to metabolize, even though it’s too acidic or too alkaline and the bug doesn’t bother me. Now, I did a muscle test and it doesn’t raise the vibration. It does something very similar as I come to see to breathing. the breathing that energizes.

Nancy: Wow, that’s amazing that you can see that and that is amazing that that’s how that is.

Sophie: Because I muscle tested people who I know that did that programs and their vibrations didn’t rise, okay?

Nancy: Is this Tr.’s program?

Sophie: What is it?

Nancy: Is that Tr.’s program?

Sophie: It’s a monthly – the first Sunday of every month, okay.

Nancy: Oh, okay.

Sophie: That’s the one I’m in. He’s going to have a weekend in Illinois and it’s $450 if you participate on the computer but I don’t know if I want spend $450 on that, given that I don’t see that I want to give up everything else for the whole weekend and sit on my chair to wait for – what I really – I don’t want his discourses. I don’t want it at all. I’m not interested in that because he doesn’t know what he’s doing. I’m telling you, he doesn’t.

Nancy: I hear you.

Sophie: He doesn’t.

Nancy: Is he connected to Sai Maa because you said…?

Sophie: No.

Nancy: Okay.

Sophie: No, but there are a lot of the people – I heard about it from Steve. Yes. And I also know another person who has gotten – he calls them blessings, okay?

Nancy: Okay, yes.

Sophie: People talk about him like Dr. Tr. because he, in his heart, causes healings.

Nancy: Yes. Oh, Dr. Tr., okay.

Sophie: Steve got a one-on-one session from him.

Nancy: Oh, I wonder how he did that.

Sophie: He actually saw him personally in upstate New York because I think the guy was visiting.

Nancy: Oh, okay. He got knocked like you did?

Sophie: Not that one but the one that I wasn’t on, another Sunday one. He actually detoxed for more than a week. He felt really bad – queezeyy stomach, headache, dizzy, blurry eyes, he got it real strong.

Nancy: Should I give you one of my symptoms that I wanted to – one of my effects that I wanted to share with you?

Sophie: Sure.

Nancy: I should get my pants, just a minute.

Sophie: That’s what you’re telling you want to share?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: That you said your pants?

Nancy: Speaking of detox, yes.

Sophie: Yes. I do have diarrhea that looks like detox too.

Nancy: You don’t think it’s detox?

Sophie: No, no, no, I just told you that I have that too. I haven’t had it to the degree that I couldn’t hold it back.

Nancy: Oh, I couldn’t hold it back.

Sophie: But I’ll tell you something, you remember MMS? Oh, you don’t know about that because that’s the time we weren’t talking. There is a substance that this guy discovered when he was in the jungles of South America.

He was a gold prospector. The place that they were prospecting – he was the only white man and he had these local Indian helpers and it was two days from – any place inhabited and they came down with malaria – the workers – and they were going to die. He looked in his bag to see what he had for them and he has water purifying tablets. He gave it to them and after two hours or so, he came back to the hut and they were playing cards. When he came back to the USA, he did a lot of research what happened and he came up with this whole technology called MMS – Miracle Mineral Supplement.

Nancy: Oh, okay. MMS, yes.

Sophie: And it is actually the same substance as the water purifier, the same substance when they wash hospital walls with and it is a very intelligent substance. Very interesting, it only kills bad bugs. It leaves the good bugs alone, leaves healthy tissues alone and only kills bad insects. It’s very interesting, how does it know? But there must be a vibrational something, okay?

Nancy: Somehow it knows.

Sophie: Yes. He developed this whole dosage and everything and he cured hundreds of thousands of people from malaria in Africa and the South America. Then he founded a church because he was going to be sued. He can’t even live in the U.S. anymore.

Nancy: Oh my God.

Sophie: And he certifies people in this healing and that they are all ministers or whatever they are called – ordinary people and they kind of minister to people, and it works. I mean I brought back a few people from death’s door.

Nancy: You did with MMS?

Sophie: Yes.

Nancy: What did they have to do with diarrhea though?

Sophie: Okay, I’m going to tell you. I’m going to tell you because that’s how it began. You take the drops and it starts to eat the bad bacteria in your intestines and you are going to have, after a few days, uncontrollable pitch black…

Nancy: Oh really?

Sophie: …pitch black stool, first stool and then uncontrollable diarrhea. The woman that I go back from that store she shit her bed, every single night, but she survived. What happened to her is she has silicon breasts and they leak. They caused her to almost be dead and the doctors said they can’t save her. She could see in her stool, the silicon came out from her system, because the substance is intelligent. I don’t know why it’s intelligent, I haven’t been able to decipher it but it seems to have an idea about the design of life.

Nancy: Oh, a divine blueprint idea.

Sophie: There is a divine blueprint, definitely.

Nancy: Yes, there is.

Sophie: I am very clear about that. A normal human being would say it’s quite rigid, right?

Nancy: A normal human being – yes, a regular, yes.

Sophie: What do you want from a blueprint? To give you alternatives? No. I mean, as an architect, I can tell you there are no alternatives when you do a blueprint. It’s the blueprint.

Nancy: Right.

Sophie: This is what you do. And if you deviate from it then you brought it on yourself. Just like it happened in Israel that I designed this house for two individuals and they took a break from or leave from their job to actually build it. They changed the blueprint on the job that they were ground-bound so they couldn’t see that the partitions are going to be in the middle of a window. So they called me and they said, “The partitions are in the middle of a window on the building.” I said, “Go back to the blueprint. Do you hear? Go back to the blueprint. I’m not going to change the blueprint for your lifestyle. Your lifestyle is off, not the blueprint.” Did you get that?

Nancy: Yes, definitely. I wanted to add, I’m meaning to tell you on your description of who you are, you have architect and I wanted to ask you and you just answered my question, was it Hungarian architect or is Israeli architect? I suggest that you that you put Israeli architect.

Sophie: I am not an Israeli architect.

Nancy: You’re not?

Sophie: I got my degree in Hungary.

Nancy: Oh, okay. All right.

Sophie: And Hungarian architecture school is the best, B-E-S-T in the world.

Nancy: Is it, really? Wow.

Sophie: The only school that they accept a degree without any additional studies or credits in the whole world.

Nancy: Wow. And that’s where you went.

Sophie: Yes. Out of the 96 people in our class, only three didn’t come out with chronic disease.

Nancy: Oh my God.

Sophie: When they calculated how many hours of study you need a week if you have average intelligence and capabilities to get an average score, they came out with 96 hours a week.

Nancy: Oh wow. But you practiced in Israel?

Sophie: I did practice in Israel. I don’t see the significance. I was an architect in three countries. That is more interesting because most people are afraid to move to the next town, right?

Nancy: Yes. It would be cool to say Hungary, Israel, American architect.

Sophie: I am at this point really curious what kind of worldly accomplishments can I be rude?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: Are you sure?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: Little people aren’t for me?

Nancy: Yes. It just shows that you’re a global woman. You’re really,

Nancy: I love it that you’re a Hungarian architect and you practiced in Israel and in the United States. I know you and I love that about you.

Sophie: You love architect as an archetype so to say.

Nancy: Yes, but I also think that a person who comes from a high discipline and then shares Godly spirituality then it shows a lot about a person than somebody – it just demonstrates, says a lot about you.

Sophie: It just wants to know that this question is important for me to consider.

Nancy: Oh, thank you.

Sophie: Because if you want to make a difference with people but they can’t relate to you as somebody valuable, they’re not ….

Nancy: Thank you for hammering that out because it was very – I was getting hammered by myself as I was speaking this so thanks. It’s exactly why I’m saying it.

Sophie: It’s really the vantage point that’s speaking and also people’s own opinion about themselves. Obviously, if you think of yourself as highly accomplished etc., you’re going to be less keen on finding out what you have to say for yourself, right?

Sophie: I think, I’m not sure, I don’t know if you ever paid attention but I was never interested in that.

Nancy: I did pay attention. I know you’re not.

Sophie: One of the things that I make from that mean which could only be because I’m a Hungarian, right?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: I made a jump, like a mental jump, and it may be wrong, so it’s not that – then I’m looking for my helicopter. It’s that I am unaware is that I decided that people who are highly accomplished more consider another’s human qualities than their accomplishment qualities, but that may be completely off. I don’t even know how to test that. How would you test that if that’s accurate?

Nancy: You just say it and muscle test yourself, right?

Sophie: People who are highly accomplished are more interested in human qualities in another than their credentials. It’s a yes.

Nancy: Good. Muscle test this – people who are highly accomplished are discerning or see something about discernment and – I have trouble putting this in words – or discerning about – what is the word you used?

Sophie: Are highly discerning about what?

Nancy: I think they’re discerning about who they would…

Sophie: Associate?

Nancy: Associate without a spiritual basis.

Sophie: Okay, what do you mean?

Nancy: Who they would connect with.

Sophie: Okay, say the direction. There’s a concern there. What’s the concern?

Nancy: The concern is that the person is going to be like a schwack, like some schwack psychic gypsy thing or something. So you kind of want to look at the person’s background.

Sophie: So, what you are saying is that a highly accomplished person looks at people’s background, not who they are.

Nancy: No, they look at both.

Sophie: That’s a no. So no, the answer is no, they don’t. Because a highly accomplished person – okay, there are all kinds of highly accomplished people, right?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: But a highly accomplished person who is hooked up is going to go to their belly instead of the background because if I went for the background there are a lot of people I would not associate with. And if you really look, I am not trusting at all of the so called accomplishment. They don’t do it for me.

Sophie: This is a very useful conversation because it actually is going deep into that inquiry that I need to be able to get a clarity because when I am designing my conversations with a potential, not physical conversation but on paper or in video – that’s why I haven’t done the video because I need to know what the people are thinking and who are going to watch it. You see, if I…

Nancy: I think I can tell you that.

Sophie: I’m not sure that it is going to be something I can follow but go ahead. Tell me everything that you know and then I am going to have to develop my own that I am not really following anyone’s instructions because that’s not my nature.

Nancy: Right. If you put it on YouTube video, it will have a tag for words. I think there’s a huge thirst for investigating modality if you’ll invest in them.

Sophie: Yes. But that’s not what I’m worried about.

Nancy: you’re not worried about that but that’s I believe what sells and I think someone would put the word “Sai Maa” and then they go, “Oh, YouTube video.”

Sophie: Yes, but that’s not the inquiry.

Nancy: Okay.

Sophie: That’s very useful what you’re saying but that’s not the inquiry. The inquiry is who they want me to look. You say how do you – what are they looking at? What are they looking at to decide if I’m full of shit…

Nancy: No.

Sophie: No, no. Don’t say no because I haven’t finished the sentence.

Nancy: Sorry.

Sophie: the no doesn’t answer it.

Nancy: Yes, okay.

Sophie: Are they looking for me being full of shit or are they going – okay, I have one piece that just came to me this second. I don’t know if you remember when I was in Colorado and had this discussion with Bill Harris, the founder of Holosync.

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: I didn’t go anywhere without my Holosync. I couldn’t sleep without my Holosync and after the discussion I chucked my program. I never used it again. I am an insomniac and I needed it, but no. Why? Because in the discussion about water – it was about water – he demonstrated narrow mindedness, stuck to earth stupidity and hostility, hostility for any other opinion than his. And I said, “I don’t want to be like you.” Even though doing Holosync wouldn’t make me like him, I couldn’t risk it.

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: I looked at this girl yesterday, black chick, rosy cheeks, rosy cheeks, sparkling eyes, beautiful smile, beautiful teeth, vibration under 200. Then somebody could say, “I don’t want to be black but I want to have sparkling eyes.” If they can’t put up with that the chick is black, they’re going to be attracted to her. Then you look at Sai Maa and she is like beaming, smile and all that and behaves like a coquettish 16 year old at 50 something and covered in silk and behaves like she doesn’t have a care in the world. So people say, “I want to be like her.” I can tell you it’s not a fun place. I have gotten into her, it’s not a fun place, okay?

Nancy: Mm-hmm.

Sophie: I also look at women… with men, people behave different. They don’t necessarily say, “I want to be like you,” or they may say, “I want to have what you have.” I want to have what you have.” Uh-huh. Like Sai Baba, [note]Osho on Sathya Sai Baba

It happens that when for the first time a meditator attains to some psychic energy, some psychic power, the tendency, a natural tendency, is to exhibit it. And if he exhibits, sooner or later he will lose the power. Then a great problem arises: he cannot do it now, but now he has respectability. He is worshipped and people expect him to do miracles. Now what is he going to do? He will have to turn to magic, he will have to start learning tricks, to maintain his prestige.

That’s what happened to Satya Sai Baba and people like that. The first things that they had done were real, the first few experiments that they had done were not phony. But then the energy disappears. And by that time you have become famous, and people start gathering, foolish people, stupid people, and they expect you, and your whole ego depends on your exhibition. Now the only possible alternative is to learn magic tricks so that you can go on maintaining your prestige. If you brag, sooner or later you will become a victim of magical tricks. You will have to learn, and deceive people.

Satya Sai Baba is neither a mystic nor a philosopher, just an ordinary magician.

One hypocrite in India is Satya Sai Baba. I call him a hypocrite because he knows nothing of yoga. There is nothing wrong if you don’t know anything of yoga — I don’t. I can afford to be sick, nobody can object; it is my birthright to be sick. I don’t know yoga. But Satya Sai Baba declares himself a great yogi; then the problem arises. Then for his appendix operation he has to go to Goa secretly. And he has to pay ten times more to the doctor so the secret should not be known, because a great yogi going for an operation? What control has he over his physiology? But it is difficult to hide because his whole ashram became curious: where has Baba disappeared? His own people became curious about where he had gone. And after the operation he had to rest for two or three days in Goa. They found out, and the media and the press — everybody was there, and the doctor had to confess that he had done the operation.

You may go and seek Satya Sai Baba, because that will be a deep fulfillment of your greed. You will see: here is the man. If he can produce things out of air, he can do anything. Now your greed is provoked. Now a deep affinity happens immediately. That’s why you will see thousands of people around Satya Sai Baba. If a Buddha exists, you will not see multitudes there, because there is no affinity. Satya Sai Baba has an appeal deep inside you: your greed is provoked. Now you know this is the right man. But you are wrong. How can you decide who is the right man? You create your deceivers, you give them the opportunity. You follow magicians, not masters.

If you really want to seek a master, drop greed and drop your beliefs. Go to a master completely nude in the mind, with no beliefs; as if you are a tree in the fall with no leaves, naked, standing against the sky. You go and seek a master with a naked mind, with no leaves, with no beliefs. Only then, only then, I say, will you be able to see without projection; only then will something penetrate into your life from the above. Then nobody can deceive you.

Don’t ask for miracles. A man of meditation is himself a miracle. Whatever he does is a miracle. It is a beauty, it is magic, but it is all spontaneous. It is not practiced, it is not rehearsed. But most people are interested in supernatural powers, healing people with supernatural powers, or creating things out of nothing, just as Satya Sai Baba is doing. All kinds of frauds… but people become interested in them, thinking that here is a man of miracles. And what is the miracle if you can produce a Swiss watch which was hiding in your sleeve…?

One old Parsi woman came to me in Bombay. Satya Sai Baba used to stay at her place, and she told me, “One day when he had gone into the bathroom, just out of curiosity I looked into his suitcases. They were all full of watches! I could not believe that this man was deceiving.” She said, “I kicked him out. I told him, `Never again come in my house!’ I cannot be a partner to any kind of fraud.” She told me, “I am an old woman. Nobody listens to me, they think I have gone senile. I have come to you… perhaps you can do something about it.”

I said, “I have been challenging Satya Sai Baba, saying that this is stupid. When the country is dying of starvation, produce more food out of your miracles. He should bring rain to Hyderabad” … where the Shankaracharya of Puri is going to force a woman to be burned alive on her husband’s funeral pyre, and only then rain will come. And Satya Sai Baba is not far away from Hyderabad. Bring rain to Hyderabad — do some real work! All that he produces is ash, and he gives you the ash and you think it is great. It is so simple that any street magician can do it. In fact the more experienced street magicians can do it in a far better way, and can do many more things than he is doing.
I have no objection to him as a magician, but he should not pretend to be a spiritual man. It is not only a question of a single person pretending to be spiritual when he is not. The question is that he attracts thousands of people, mediocre people, who believe that this man of miracles may impart something to them, may lead them to the ultimate truth.

People ask me why Indians are not here. They cannot be here because we are REALLY interested in meditation. They go to Satya Sai Baba because meditation is not the question there — miracles are happening. They can hope. They are ill: maybe Satya Sai Baba, by his miracle, can take their illness away. Maybe they are unemployed: by his blessing they will be employed. They are poor: by his blessing they will become rich. They go to Satya Sai Baba — he deals in things which they need. And they are really surprised when Swiss-made watches appear out of nowhere. That is their real object — they want Swiss-made watches. Stupid people, and stupid are their saints. Now a saint playing games, magic games, ordinary magic games! We have sannyasins — Avinash can do it, Sarvesh can do it — just small games, of no value at all, of no religious value at all. Maybe entertaining.

The curtain of attachments is so dense and thick that even if you go towards religion you look for miracles. If you find Buddha standing before you, you will not recognize him. If Buddha and Satya Sai Baba are both present you will definitely move towards Satya Sai Baba, and not towards Buddha, because Buddha is not so stupid as to conjures things out of the air! You are in search of magicians. You are impressed by miracles, because your deepest desire is for the world and not for God.[/note] ‘I want to make gold out of crap.’ This is where the difference of being a woman and a man comes in really strong. Nobody says, “I want to have what you have,” to Sai Maa. They say, “I want to be like you.” Do you see that?

Nancy: Mm-hmm.

Sophie: Now, asking the question from there, who do I need to be on a YouTube video that they say, “I want to be like you,” is the question. Do you hear that it’s a different question?

Nancy: Yes, it’s a different question. You want to get your being. It’s what you’re being.

Sophie: And my being is a little edgy. Now, the question is why do people flock to Marianne Williamson? Because her vibration is under 200. Is she beautiful?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: Aha.

Nancy: And skinny.

Sophie: And so is Debbie Ford. Do you know any fat chick who people flock to?

Nancy: Amma.

Sophie: Who?

Nancy: Amma.

Sophie: Who is Amma?

Nancy: The hugging guru.

Sophie: They are flocking to her?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: What do you mean flocking?

Nancy: She has a following, people. just like Sai Maa.

Sophie: What does she do? Is she selling anything?

Nancy: No, she doesn’t sell anything. She hugs people.

Sophie: So, it’s all pretense. Got it. People want to be pretentious like her, like the Christian love. Amma, A-M-A?

Nancy: A-M-M-A, the hugging guru.

Sophie: And what is she teaching? Hugging saint, she’s a saint, not a guru.

Nancy: Oh okay, saint.

Sophie: Hugging saint. Amma.org. Is she American?

Nancy: No, she’s Indian.

Sophie: She’s another f-ing Indian?

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: “My sole mission is to love and serve one and all.” Okay, she appeals to the people who think life is self sacrifice.

Nancy: She does? Because of no money?

Sophie: No, because she epitomizes that selfless labor.

Nancy: Did you do John of God?

Sophie: Who is John of God?

Nancy: Oh.

Sophie: Jon, J-O-N?

Nancy: I believe it’s J-O-H-N, the man of God. He’s a man. John of God lives in Brazil. John of God is very popular. He’s been on Oprah and Ellen has been to him twice, healer.

Sophie: Fourth plane. Without opening I felt fourth plane.

Nancy: Fourth plane?

Sophie: Yes.

Nancy: Fixed things in people, fixed things in their eye and puts his hand in them and take things out of their body.

Sophie: No, not fourth plane.

Nancy: Oh, what is it?

Sophie: Fifth.

Nancy: Fifth? Oh.

Sophie: Okay, I stay away from these people.

Nancy: Yes. Are you telling me that’s an eerie thing that you do?

Sophie: I am staying away from these people. It’s like leprosy to me. One of the reasons for that is – you have to go, I know.

Nancy: Yes.

Sophie: It’s that I am protective of my energies.

Nancy: Okay.

Sophie: Okay. Thank you for calling.

Nancy: Thank you, bye.

Read the original article: Helicopter Ride, Turning Crap To Gold, Following A Guru